The same people that scoffed at good and evil in stories then tried to make you believe it was meaningless and all grey, now reassert good and evil exist but are the opposite of what they used to be. That was always the game, and it is why they should be clowned on and dismissed.
It’s impossible to unsee the con once you’re aware of it.
The brazenness of the hypocrisy is really quite stunning. That’s why these knobs should not have their opinions taken seriously. They don’t come at the discussion in good faith.
Death of the Author is a pernicious idea because it is half right. Stories do take on a life of their own, and an author can write something with the opposite message that he intended. However, where this goes wrong is that the Left uses this an excuse to interpret everything through their frame.
Exactly. It’s the worst kind of lie, the one with a kernel of truth to it. But as usual, these radical lefty weirdos will do, say, and believe whatever is expedient to acquire and maintain power and control. Therefore, they deserve no respect.
Spot on! The baddies you aptly describe here have no principles. They just use whatever tool or argument lying about to support doing what they want. Pure Id. Pure pleasure principle. Pure post-modern power play all the way down. (I believe it is partly the socio-cultural metastasizing of the Shadow Feminine, but that's a story for a different day.) And, heck, we're all guilty of rationalizing and creating defense mechanisms and so on to varying degrees, myself very much included, but for these people it is complete, wanton, pathological abandonment to such behavior.
If they want to rabidly defend hijacking a work to jam in current, politically-correct narratives or self-insert, fanfic characters, they'll coo, "It's just a book/movie/comic/game...! It's not real, why do yoooouuu care so much, boomer bigot phobist!? Get with the times. Guess it's just not for you!"
If they can find an oblique angle to support some level of textual rationale for a decision, they will run that into the ground, "This has always been in the source material, so we're just staying true to story. (Fill in the blank) has ALWAYS been about this narrative/had this character/been woke...! You have no clue, boomer bigot phobist! Guess it's just not for you!"
I get it: doing whatever you want all the time despite incalculable collateral damage while feeling completely validated, even virtuous, in the doing probably feels pretty rad haha. I'm just not sure that, to borrow another of their fave phrases, it is a particularly "sustainable" practice.
“ If they want to rabidly defend hijacking a work to jam in current, politically-correct narratives or self-insert, fanfic characters, they'll coo, "It's just a book/movie/comic/game...! It's not real, why do yoooouuu care so much, boomer bigot phobist!? Get with the times. Guess it's just not for you!"”
Exactly! If this stuff didn’t matter, these morons wouldn’t spend millions trying to remake pop culture in their own stupid image.
Precisely. It is fine for it to be an astronomically expensive, all-consuming, vitally important thing to theeeeem, but if we so much as raise an eyebrow then we're "pouncing" or getting all riled up over nothing haha
Intent is one factor, but in the end, the words and senes also say what they say, regardless of what the author hoped to say.
Not my words, but PV "accidentally makes great movies. Not the one he intended to make, but he does sometimes make great films."
The ideological straightjacket is in part why I lean on philosophy and observation - I have to take the world as it is. Playing and designing games as a hobby shows me how rules will be broken at teh edge cases, but more importantly, that anyone who wants to get around a rule will do their utmost find ways to break the ruleset. Or ignore it.
Absolutely. A work of art does take on a life of its own once it’s out in the public consciousness. I think about Morrissey and why this very English Englishman’s music resonates so much with Mexicans a hemisphere away. There’s something in it Morrissey clearly didn’t intend to be Mexican-coded or whatever (I don’t think he coded his music as ANYTHING in particular, to be honest), but there you go. You can only control your audience to a degree. Perhaps, as you say, there’s a Mexican cultural outlook on life that Morrissey unwittingly tapped into.
Now, imagine if Morrissey, instead of embracing his Mexican fans complained that they didn’t get his music and were interpreting it all wrong. We’d all point and laugh at the cranky Englishman.
The alleged "culture wars" are beneath me -- and everyone else.
Because really what they amount to is who has control over whatever message is nationally broadcast.
And that "war" is hardly worth fighting and unlikely to be "won," whatever that would mean.
Instead people e should create better alternatives to national media, so that the national media isn't empowered to publish and present so much farcial nonsense.
We’re going to have to agree to disagree here. Yes, I 100 percent agree on the need to create better alternatives to national media, but there’s also the need to create better messages. And I do not think preventing the spoliation of everything is a futile endeavor. That’s how we got here in the first place: dismissing certain cultural things as not worth it instead of fighting back when the SJW nuts weren’t firmly ensconced in power.
My point is those that believe they are participants in a culture war are usually just reacting to politics they disagree with.
And at that point whatever "war" they believe they're participating in is already lost.
So instead of fighting back people would be better off intentionally working to create the world they want to live in. Surely this would be a better outcome than making futile complaints about things that won't be changed anytime soon.
It's beautiful to see that in spite of all satires, hijacking, and propaganda, people still tend to stand for the good and the beautiful. Of course, we shouldn't be slacking just because the truth always prevails, but seeing that playing out in front of my eyes is exciting.
The same people that scoffed at good and evil in stories then tried to make you believe it was meaningless and all grey, now reassert good and evil exist but are the opposite of what they used to be. That was always the game, and it is why they should be clowned on and dismissed.
It’s impossible to unsee the con once you’re aware of it.
The brazenness of the hypocrisy is really quite stunning. That’s why these knobs should not have their opinions taken seriously. They don’t come at the discussion in good faith.
Death of the Author is a pernicious idea because it is half right. Stories do take on a life of their own, and an author can write something with the opposite message that he intended. However, where this goes wrong is that the Left uses this an excuse to interpret everything through their frame.
Exactly. It’s the worst kind of lie, the one with a kernel of truth to it. But as usual, these radical lefty weirdos will do, say, and believe whatever is expedient to acquire and maintain power and control. Therefore, they deserve no respect.
Post-structuralism, not even once!
Never!
Spot on! The baddies you aptly describe here have no principles. They just use whatever tool or argument lying about to support doing what they want. Pure Id. Pure pleasure principle. Pure post-modern power play all the way down. (I believe it is partly the socio-cultural metastasizing of the Shadow Feminine, but that's a story for a different day.) And, heck, we're all guilty of rationalizing and creating defense mechanisms and so on to varying degrees, myself very much included, but for these people it is complete, wanton, pathological abandonment to such behavior.
If they want to rabidly defend hijacking a work to jam in current, politically-correct narratives or self-insert, fanfic characters, they'll coo, "It's just a book/movie/comic/game...! It's not real, why do yoooouuu care so much, boomer bigot phobist!? Get with the times. Guess it's just not for you!"
If they can find an oblique angle to support some level of textual rationale for a decision, they will run that into the ground, "This has always been in the source material, so we're just staying true to story. (Fill in the blank) has ALWAYS been about this narrative/had this character/been woke...! You have no clue, boomer bigot phobist! Guess it's just not for you!"
I get it: doing whatever you want all the time despite incalculable collateral damage while feeling completely validated, even virtuous, in the doing probably feels pretty rad haha. I'm just not sure that, to borrow another of their fave phrases, it is a particularly "sustainable" practice.
“ If they want to rabidly defend hijacking a work to jam in current, politically-correct narratives or self-insert, fanfic characters, they'll coo, "It's just a book/movie/comic/game...! It's not real, why do yoooouuu care so much, boomer bigot phobist!? Get with the times. Guess it's just not for you!"”
Exactly! If this stuff didn’t matter, these morons wouldn’t spend millions trying to remake pop culture in their own stupid image.
Precisely. It is fine for it to be an astronomically expensive, all-consuming, vitally important thing to theeeeem, but if we so much as raise an eyebrow then we're "pouncing" or getting all riled up over nothing haha
“Why do YOU care if we race-swap every red-haired heroine? It’s just fiction lol!”
And also:
“REPRESENTATION MATTERS!”
That's the perfect example!
Thank you 😁
You are welcome sir. But thank you for sparking this conversation.
Intent is one factor, but in the end, the words and senes also say what they say, regardless of what the author hoped to say.
Not my words, but PV "accidentally makes great movies. Not the one he intended to make, but he does sometimes make great films."
The ideological straightjacket is in part why I lean on philosophy and observation - I have to take the world as it is. Playing and designing games as a hobby shows me how rules will be broken at teh edge cases, but more importantly, that anyone who wants to get around a rule will do their utmost find ways to break the ruleset. Or ignore it.
One's outlook on life has to factor that in.
Absolutely. A work of art does take on a life of its own once it’s out in the public consciousness. I think about Morrissey and why this very English Englishman’s music resonates so much with Mexicans a hemisphere away. There’s something in it Morrissey clearly didn’t intend to be Mexican-coded or whatever (I don’t think he coded his music as ANYTHING in particular, to be honest), but there you go. You can only control your audience to a degree. Perhaps, as you say, there’s a Mexican cultural outlook on life that Morrissey unwittingly tapped into.
Now, imagine if Morrissey, instead of embracing his Mexican fans complained that they didn’t get his music and were interpreting it all wrong. We’d all point and laugh at the cranky Englishman.
I think you can have both the death of the author and authorial intent when you realise that there are two separate questions involved.
What did the author mean? And;
Did he do a good job of communicating it?
Yes, perhaps they meant to criticise fascism and make fun of the religious, but they hashed it up because they don't understand jack about it.
The author's intent matters when judging it because you need to know what mark they intended to hit before you know if they hit it...
Yes, the author’s ability to communicate intent is key. Maybe, in the Starship Troopers example, this is what Veerhoven failed to do.
It’s not always cut-and-dry, but generally I don’t think a work of art requires a companion dissertation in order to glean a meaning from it.
The alleged "culture wars" are beneath me -- and everyone else.
Because really what they amount to is who has control over whatever message is nationally broadcast.
And that "war" is hardly worth fighting and unlikely to be "won," whatever that would mean.
Instead people e should create better alternatives to national media, so that the national media isn't empowered to publish and present so much farcial nonsense.
We’re going to have to agree to disagree here. Yes, I 100 percent agree on the need to create better alternatives to national media, but there’s also the need to create better messages. And I do not think preventing the spoliation of everything is a futile endeavor. That’s how we got here in the first place: dismissing certain cultural things as not worth it instead of fighting back when the SJW nuts weren’t firmly ensconced in power.
I'm not sure we actually disagree.
My point is those that believe they are participants in a culture war are usually just reacting to politics they disagree with.
And at that point whatever "war" they believe they're participating in is already lost.
So instead of fighting back people would be better off intentionally working to create the world they want to live in. Surely this would be a better outcome than making futile complaints about things that won't be changed anytime soon.
It's beautiful to see that in spite of all satires, hijacking, and propaganda, people still tend to stand for the good and the beautiful. Of course, we shouldn't be slacking just because the truth always prevails, but seeing that playing out in front of my eyes is exciting.
It is. No matter how hard the powers that be try to make evil good and good evil, reality reasserts itself with hilarious results.