My favorite Steve Albini story was how he mad he was when Urge Overkill jumped to the majors and all but said his incessant interfering is why their early stuff is garbage (and it is). IIRC he still holds a grudge against them to this day for that. But I don't think Albini could ever record an album as emotionally mature as Exit the Dragon anyway. (RIP Blackie)
Your talk about aging made me think of my own work, particularly Y Signal. I know some people said it could be considered young adult or read by kids, I think it works much better for older audiences. There is no way I would have been able to do something like that when I was younger, and I don't think I would have really hooked into it either. There is a way to write about youth and those juvenile days without being juvenile about it or clinging to the past. That's the sort of thing that resonates more with me.
Also, I agree with Kevin Smith's lack of maturity really not aging well. It would have worked had he had some sort of transformation in his own life that made him reassess where he came from and where he was going, but no: he still cries over corporate cape movies and deliberately tries to ruin childhood properties for people who like them. As a consequence, he has nothing to say and it makes going back to his early work really difficult when you have that context.
That isn't to say I don't like silly stuff. I do like a good bit of glam-style or deliberately juvenile music, but it's usually a bit more than mindlessly swearing and just trying to get under people's skin with nothing else to it.
That said, there is a reason when bands used to get older they would change their sound so much--like the Replacements or even Oasis did. You aren't the same hungry kid who picked up that guitar decades ago. Naturally, you're going to change, and it's up to you to make sure that's in a way that still connects with your base audience. I find that's what Albini and so many others miss. They didn't grow up so much as they grew away.
That reminds me years ago when I saw a random review of a then-recent Lamb of God album and the singer, who was just turning 40, I believe, bragged about how he was exactly the same as he was when he was 18 and hadn't changed in the slightest. All I could think of was how sad that was. Hopefully he has learned since then.
All that said, I can still find joy in an old Three Stooges or Tom & Jerry short, so there's that!
After reading these comments, I had to look up who the guy was, and ended up falling into a wikipedia rabbit hole. And that's where I found ironclad proof of Brian Niemeier's "1997 was Cultural Ground Zero" hypothesis. To quote -
"Few artists were playing nu metal until 1997 when bands such as Coal Chamber,[131] Limp Bizkit,[132] and Papa Roach[133] all released their debut albums, in what Billboard writer William Goodman calls a "banner year" for the genre.[134]"
I haven’t seen Mallrats, or Clerks or Chasing Amy, for that matter, in over 20 years. I remember them fondly and I think I’ll stick with those memories.
I can't tell you how much I appreciated this article. I'm just slightly older, 46 in two weeks, but everything from The Who (saw what's left of them in 2015), to Our Band Could Be Your Life, but I completely track with everything you wrote here. Including no longer finding Kevin Smith funny, but I still hold onto my autographed copy of the screenplays for Clerks and Chasing Amy, mainly because the book is too beat up to sell to anyone, and sometimes to know where you're going, it does pay to know where you've been, even if you don't care for it anymore. About the only thing I can add, is you hit a point where the Beach Boys "When I Grow Up To Be A Man" becomes more uncomfortable and sad to listen to.
As someone with minimal knowledge of The Beach Boys, I had to look up the lyrics to “When I Grow Up to Be a Man,” and wow, yeah, they certainly resonate:
“When I grow up to be a man
Will I dig the same things that turn me on as a kid?
Will I look back and say that I wish I hadn't done what I did?
Will I joke around and still dig those sounds
When I grow up to be a man?
Will I look for the same things in a woman that I dig in a girl?
(Fourteen, fifteen)
Will I settle down fast or will I first wanna travel the world?
(Sixteen, seventeen)
When I'm young and free, but how will it be?
When I grow up to be a man?
Will my kids be proud or think their old man is really a square?
(Eighteen, nineteen)
When they're out having fun, yeah, will I still wanna have my share?
Great post. I'm 38 now and I'm still trying to figure out what moves me at this stage in my life, as far as art goes. Most of the stuff I used to watch/listen to doesn't do it for me anymore.
Honestly, though, excellent portrayals of family within film resonate more now than ever before, despite not having kids.
I also appreciate musical artists, like Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, or Nick Cave, who matured to create some of their best works in their old age.
It’s funny, right? I have a feeling that most people before the 1960s realized that tastes change as they get older, and only that much-maligned generation decided that their tastes shall remain forever frozen in amber. I joke, but the Boomers have had about 1,000 times the impact on the world our generation ever will, so it’s nearly impossible not to reference them.
That said, I think we, i.e., Gen X and younger, hew in many ways closer to our grandparents than our parents in a few respects, aging gracefully being one of them.
And no, this isn’t an oblique criticism of my parents. I’ve got no complaints about them.
Haha, well the 60s were pretty revolutionary. For better and for worse. Can't imagine what it was like to experience Hendrix, Dylan, Beatles, Stones, etc when they were new.
But... yeah. Time moves on!
I do still love hearing 70s, 80s and 90s classics on the radio whenever they come on, but I don't ever choose to listen to them on my own.
Good teen angst music (like Pink Floyd, to a degree) can still hit because many emotions are universal. But I know the kind of music you mean.
A bit of a tangent, but this is why some bands that are highly regarded never hit with me. Korn, for example. I respect their creativity but lyrically, I didn’t come from a broken home, I’m not a downscale white, I didn’t have hard circumstances, so their songs didn’t resonate. That’s not to say they’re bad but they don’t do it FOR ME.
Now, if I did grow up in circumstances like those related in Korn songs, and say as an adult I clawed my way out of them, I’m sure I’d still enjoy their music. But as it is, it bounced off of me as a kid, and it bounces off of me now.
I had a stable, comfortable upbringing with two loving parents who are still married, one which people might say was “boring,” which I’m lucky to have experienced, and I think this explains why I got into prog and weird math rock instead of punk and metal.
In my very early days of music listening, I used to like Linkin Park, but now I ascribe that more to the fact that it was the only "rock" music available on the mainstream rather than to what their artistic message was. Truth is, if I had been a native English speaker able to understand what they said, I'd have probably switched to EDM. LOL
Even with metal now, my favorite bands either talk about being a fantasy warrior or about love, or present themselves like an horror movie. I'm more about a vigorous flight of fancy or about passion, and I don't buy the "angry metalhead raging against the word" bit that much.l
Don't apologize for the late reply--I'm not one of those people who bans necroposting.
Good point about Linkin Park in particular. Their lyrics are very angsty and, even if I ever cared for their music, the lyrics were too much of a turn off for me. "Woe is me" whining was never, and still isn't, my preferred lyrical genre, my love for Pink Floyd notwithstanding.
Metal does come in a few distinct flavors, with the "F the world" being one and "I'm going to slay my enemies while riding on the back of a dragon" being another. It's a great genre with plenty of variety. I think "angry metalhead raging against the world" appeals to a certain demographic, which it sounds like does not include you or me.
Perhaps. Teen angst is always a thing, and it’s not a bad thing—we all go through it. It’s probably now being expressed more often in rap and hip hop and pop music. Nobody really cares about rock anymore on a large cultural scale.
My favorite Steve Albini story was how he mad he was when Urge Overkill jumped to the majors and all but said his incessant interfering is why their early stuff is garbage (and it is). IIRC he still holds a grudge against them to this day for that. But I don't think Albini could ever record an album as emotionally mature as Exit the Dragon anyway. (RIP Blackie)
Your talk about aging made me think of my own work, particularly Y Signal. I know some people said it could be considered young adult or read by kids, I think it works much better for older audiences. There is no way I would have been able to do something like that when I was younger, and I don't think I would have really hooked into it either. There is a way to write about youth and those juvenile days without being juvenile about it or clinging to the past. That's the sort of thing that resonates more with me.
Also, I agree with Kevin Smith's lack of maturity really not aging well. It would have worked had he had some sort of transformation in his own life that made him reassess where he came from and where he was going, but no: he still cries over corporate cape movies and deliberately tries to ruin childhood properties for people who like them. As a consequence, he has nothing to say and it makes going back to his early work really difficult when you have that context.
That isn't to say I don't like silly stuff. I do like a good bit of glam-style or deliberately juvenile music, but it's usually a bit more than mindlessly swearing and just trying to get under people's skin with nothing else to it.
That said, there is a reason when bands used to get older they would change their sound so much--like the Replacements or even Oasis did. You aren't the same hungry kid who picked up that guitar decades ago. Naturally, you're going to change, and it's up to you to make sure that's in a way that still connects with your base audience. I find that's what Albini and so many others miss. They didn't grow up so much as they grew away.
That reminds me years ago when I saw a random review of a then-recent Lamb of God album and the singer, who was just turning 40, I believe, bragged about how he was exactly the same as he was when he was 18 and hadn't changed in the slightest. All I could think of was how sad that was. Hopefully he has learned since then.
All that said, I can still find joy in an old Three Stooges or Tom & Jerry short, so there's that!
The lead singer of Lamb of God also killed a dude by shoving him off stage.
That explains a lot.
After reading these comments, I had to look up who the guy was, and ended up falling into a wikipedia rabbit hole. And that's where I found ironclad proof of Brian Niemeier's "1997 was Cultural Ground Zero" hypothesis. To quote -
"Few artists were playing nu metal until 1997 when bands such as Coal Chamber,[131] Limp Bizkit,[132] and Papa Roach[133] all released their debut albums, in what Billboard writer William Goodman calls a "banner year" for the genre.[134]"
A banner year for nü-metal is like winning but actually losing.
Not gonna lie: the Jay and Silent Bob movies still do it for me. Mallrats will (probably) always be one of my favorite comedies.
I haven’t seen Mallrats, or Clerks or Chasing Amy, for that matter, in over 20 years. I remember them fondly and I think I’ll stick with those memories.
I can't tell you how much I appreciated this article. I'm just slightly older, 46 in two weeks, but everything from The Who (saw what's left of them in 2015), to Our Band Could Be Your Life, but I completely track with everything you wrote here. Including no longer finding Kevin Smith funny, but I still hold onto my autographed copy of the screenplays for Clerks and Chasing Amy, mainly because the book is too beat up to sell to anyone, and sometimes to know where you're going, it does pay to know where you've been, even if you don't care for it anymore. About the only thing I can add, is you hit a point where the Beach Boys "When I Grow Up To Be A Man" becomes more uncomfortable and sad to listen to.
As someone with minimal knowledge of The Beach Boys, I had to look up the lyrics to “When I Grow Up to Be a Man,” and wow, yeah, they certainly resonate:
“When I grow up to be a man
Will I dig the same things that turn me on as a kid?
Will I look back and say that I wish I hadn't done what I did?
Will I joke around and still dig those sounds
When I grow up to be a man?
Will I look for the same things in a woman that I dig in a girl?
(Fourteen, fifteen)
Will I settle down fast or will I first wanna travel the world?
(Sixteen, seventeen)
When I'm young and free, but how will it be?
When I grow up to be a man?
Will my kids be proud or think their old man is really a square?
(Eighteen, nineteen)
When they're out having fun, yeah, will I still wanna have my share?
(Twenty, twenty-one)
Will I love my wife for the rest of my life?
When I grow up to be a man?
What will I be when I grow up to be a man?
Won't last forever
It's kind of sad
Won't last forever
It's kind of sad”
Great post. I'm 38 now and I'm still trying to figure out what moves me at this stage in my life, as far as art goes. Most of the stuff I used to watch/listen to doesn't do it for me anymore.
Honestly, though, excellent portrayals of family within film resonate more now than ever before, despite not having kids.
I also appreciate musical artists, like Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, or Nick Cave, who matured to create some of their best works in their old age.
It’s funny, right? I have a feeling that most people before the 1960s realized that tastes change as they get older, and only that much-maligned generation decided that their tastes shall remain forever frozen in amber. I joke, but the Boomers have had about 1,000 times the impact on the world our generation ever will, so it’s nearly impossible not to reference them.
That said, I think we, i.e., Gen X and younger, hew in many ways closer to our grandparents than our parents in a few respects, aging gracefully being one of them.
And no, this isn’t an oblique criticism of my parents. I’ve got no complaints about them.
Haha, well the 60s were pretty revolutionary. For better and for worse. Can't imagine what it was like to experience Hendrix, Dylan, Beatles, Stones, etc when they were new.
But... yeah. Time moves on!
I do still love hearing 70s, 80s and 90s classics on the radio whenever they come on, but I don't ever choose to listen to them on my own.
“I do still love hearing 70s, 80s and 90s classics on the radio whenever they come on, but I don't ever choose to listen to them on my own.“
And that’s totally natural.
I guess this explains why I don't like teeny angst music anymore, though I find it musically boring too, and not just lirically unrelatable.
Good teen angst music (like Pink Floyd, to a degree) can still hit because many emotions are universal. But I know the kind of music you mean.
A bit of a tangent, but this is why some bands that are highly regarded never hit with me. Korn, for example. I respect their creativity but lyrically, I didn’t come from a broken home, I’m not a downscale white, I didn’t have hard circumstances, so their songs didn’t resonate. That’s not to say they’re bad but they don’t do it FOR ME.
Now, if I did grow up in circumstances like those related in Korn songs, and say as an adult I clawed my way out of them, I’m sure I’d still enjoy their music. But as it is, it bounced off of me as a kid, and it bounces off of me now.
I had a stable, comfortable upbringing with two loving parents who are still married, one which people might say was “boring,” which I’m lucky to have experienced, and I think this explains why I got into prog and weird math rock instead of punk and metal.
First, let me be sorry for replying so late.
In my very early days of music listening, I used to like Linkin Park, but now I ascribe that more to the fact that it was the only "rock" music available on the mainstream rather than to what their artistic message was. Truth is, if I had been a native English speaker able to understand what they said, I'd have probably switched to EDM. LOL
Even with metal now, my favorite bands either talk about being a fantasy warrior or about love, or present themselves like an horror movie. I'm more about a vigorous flight of fancy or about passion, and I don't buy the "angry metalhead raging against the word" bit that much.l
Don't apologize for the late reply--I'm not one of those people who bans necroposting.
Good point about Linkin Park in particular. Their lyrics are very angsty and, even if I ever cared for their music, the lyrics were too much of a turn off for me. "Woe is me" whining was never, and still isn't, my preferred lyrical genre, my love for Pink Floyd notwithstanding.
Metal does come in a few distinct flavors, with the "F the world" being one and "I'm going to slay my enemies while riding on the back of a dragon" being another. It's a great genre with plenty of variety. I think "angry metalhead raging against the world" appeals to a certain demographic, which it sounds like does not include you or me.
I'm prone to believe the angry raging metalhead is more of a 90s thing. Or at least, that demographic seems to be lowering in number.
Perhaps. Teen angst is always a thing, and it’s not a bad thing—we all go through it. It’s probably now being expressed more often in rap and hip hop and pop music. Nobody really cares about rock anymore on a large cultural scale.
Trap (a subgenre of rap or something like that) is where you'll find the angst here in Italy.
But yeah, you're right.